07.06
So this year, we were invited back to Otakon to perform Spoiler 3, and we are very very excited. Due to our foul mouths, our panel was stamped with an 18+ only rating. Fair enough. We figured that we would, as a special event, make Spoiler totally pantsless at Otakon with our newfound 18+ freedom. However, we were told that pants were totally mandatory. Frowny face. Oh well. Each convtnion has their own policies right? So anyway, I was about to go about my regrettably pants-ful way when I got this response from an Otakon staffer. Actually, it wasn’t just a staffer, it was a member of the board of directors.
Courtesy of: The Pants Are Optional Topic
We’re all for having fun, but honestly it seems like every year people come up with just crazy stuff that is NEVER going to be allowable in public or in polite company.
Just because you’re at a con, that doesn’t mean the rules of everyday life are completely suspended.
Okay … wait what? Is taking off your pants at a convention really that offensive? Is it really a rule of everyday life that you can’t take your pants off in a room with a bunch of people that say it is OK to? I understand their original argument, that the BCC had policies against that sort of thing. THAT makes total sense. However, is taking off your pants NEVER allowable in public or polite company. Geez I can remember a spoiler rehearsal we did totally pantsless, and everyone there seemed to be polite. I can also remember more than one comedian who has been known to take his pants off on stage.
So, is taking off your pants really past the limit of things that a convention will allow? This is a convention that allows girls to cosplay characters that wear next to nothing. Look at the Felicia cosplayers out there. Look at the Yoko (from Gurren Lagann) cosplayers. Geebus I can’t wait to see what girls decide to cosplay Makoto from BlazBlue. So female nudity is not offensive but male nudity is? Or perhaps they are just saying that nudity is OK if it is part of a costume but otherwise isn’t OK. It sure as hell can’t be a problem with being revealing, cause boxer shorts hide way more than these costumes do. Is it simply the case that it is only OK to take off your pants if you are attractive? That’s demeaning isn’t it?
Not to mention, I can think of PLENTY of things that should be way more offensive than some geeks sitting around in their underwear. The full frontal nudity shown in the hardcore hentai in hentai panels doesn’t count as more offensive? The extreme violence shown in the mature screenings doesn’t count as more offensive? Hell, the numerous amounts of trolls and no-shows in non 18+ panels don’t count as more offensive? Also, geez I can remember topless models in a “how to draw hentai” panel, and anime burlesques that were practically strip shows, and a dozen and one masquerade skits that end with someone pantsless. When did panels become a “pants only” zone?
Honestly, I just don’t get this morality. The idea was to just have a little fun and let the audience take off their pants “cause they can” because we were put into an 18+ slot and it soon erupted into something way more. I’m sure the Otakon staff looks down on us as “trying to cause trouble” now, but really all we wanted to do was have some consensual adult pantsless fun, and as soon as we were told not to, we said OK, but I get the feeling they are getting sick of the fact that we like to make waves, and would probably prefer to stick with someone “inside the box”. God forbid we do something more interesting than the flatly delivered cookie-cutter discussion panels everyone is used to. I guess I just have to be happy that we have such a strong fan following that has been built up over these years. It’s probably the only thing that lets us act the way we do.
All bureaucratic things with Otakon aside, what do YOU guys think? Is offering people a chance to take off their pants in a panel room really that offensive? Is it any more offensive than anything else you can see at a convention? What is the fan’s opinion on an 18+ panel being “pants optional”?
This sure has snowballed. I mean geez, we were kidding from the get go anyway … probably.
What really sucks is how hard it is get across that we really are trying to be professional about all this. All we really want to know are the policies that Otakon has about panels, and we aren’t trying to troll Otakon, or cause problems. Still, I can’t help but think the couple of issues we have had this year is starting to paint us as something of an undesirable element.
Fan Page
As an addendum, I would point out that Angelo performed lawyerly duties at the AUSA 18+ edition of Anime Parliament sans pants, and there were no riots. We just wanted to take off our pants when sitting behind a table. Sheesh.
I support you guys! I’ll be going to Otakon and I’ll be coming to your panel. You guys are awesome! Keep up the good work!
Honestly I can understand the reasoning for that response. I read that thread and my rebuttal is: I can see that you weren’t really even trying to troll them. You guys were curious. However, the rule of public indecency still applies. True that a lot of cosplayers stretch the concept of what is acceptable and what isn’t, but many are technically not even in their underwear. Therefore, it technically is acceptable. IMO, I wouldn’t bother touching this subject any further. No means no. I don’t think it would have honestly mattered if it happened at other conventions. The discussion dealt with Otakon. Sure it could happen elsewhere but that’s not the subject at hand. From what I saw in that entire thread, you were bringing up a lot of mentions of other conventions who probably would have accepted the pantsless idea. Personally, I don’t really care about it. So long as it follows the rules, then I’m fine. But if it doesn’t, then better to just drop it instead of turning it into a long long long long discussion about morality and stuff. No point in dragging it on and on. If it was a central part of your panel, i can understand you getting uppity about it but it doesn’t seem like it so…yeah. I have nothing more to add -waits for impending flames-
Interesting, but you miss the part where I mentioned that the BCC requires proper clothing and not just underwear. They’ll stretch the rules pretty far for an obvious costume, but just taking your pants off and hanging in your underoos isn’t going to fly. Do that in a public place and you might well be guilty of indecent exposure. The rules have long emphasized that if you can’t do it outside, you can’t do it inside the con, either.
Personally, I don’t really care about your pants. And I tend to agree with you that the rules of propriety can be pretty arbitrary. But your essay seems to pretend those rules about attire don’t exist, and paints us as hypocritical, and I think that is a bit unfair.
Jim,
I am not trying to paint you as Hypocritical in the least. One of the first things I said in this essay was.
I understand their original argument, that the BCC had policies against that sort of thing. THAT makes total sense. However, is taking off your pants NEVER allowable in public or polite company?
I acknowledged the BCCs policies against that sort of thing and I understand Otakon’s position. Frankly, I could care less about about my pants. This whole thing started as a joke, a possible thing to do just for the hell of it, and snowballed into an argument that, frankly I don’t get. I’m not fighting to take my pants off, that’s foolish and childish. However, I don’t understand where it shifted from harmless discussion to serious argument. I mean, it feels like no one is listening to the parts of my posts that say “I get it, I’m totally in compliance with your policies, I have respect for Otakon, and I wouldn’t do anything to jeopardize the con.” Like, I’m trying to make it absolutely clear that the simple word “No” was enough for me, but it seems like I can’t be apologetic enough. It seems as if even discussing the differences in policies and reasons behind them is viewed as trying to troll or undermine the convention.
I don’t bring up other conventions I have been pantsless at becuase I’m trying to make some sort of “they let me do it, you guys should let me do it too” argument. I bring them up becuase if we were having a discussion ABOUT the notion of rules of propriety and they show how ideas behind these rules can change. They can change becuase some cons treat it as a private event with consent involved, they can change whether the cons are at a convention center or a hotel, they can change for a myriad of reasons pertinent to this discussion. I mean, we are adults right? Can’t adults just talk about this stuff? Can’t we just have a discussion? Isn’t that what forums are for? Having discussions?
I’m not angry about being told “keep your pants on.” That’s totally reasonable. I’m a little pissed off becuase I feel that things are getting overly confrontational. I mean, I and other members of Disorganization XIII have been going to and performing at Otakon for years. We have had a wonderful relationship with Otakon in the past! Now, this year I decide to come out of hiding and post a bit on the forums and suddenly everything goes to shit? It’s like things that Ota staff was perfectly comfortable talking with me about over a beer or a doughnut are now massively taboo. Please correct me if I am wrong or if I am taking responses to my posts in the wrong way but… doesn’t that seem weird to you. I mean you guys were our friends! Disorganization XIII’s allies! Letting us perform there before we even had a name for our group!
My essay was an attempt to show that things aren’t as black and white as they seem, not an attack on Otakon. Frankly, I just want things to go back to the way they were before I started posting on Otakon’s forums, when it was about performing and making fans laugh rather than pants and pants policies. You guys have no idea how important performing at Otakon is to every Disorganization XIII member and every Disorganization XIII fan, and I mean you are OTAKON! You are a monster of a con that could literally flip us off and kick us to the curb if you wanted to. I just don’t know what else I can type to show you guys that we like you and that we aren’t trying to undermine, attack, or troll you guys in any way. We are just trying to talk about shit!
It’s probably not as bad as either you or Otakon are making it out to be. Sounds like a standard issue of two people arguing over the internet to me. Two mature professionals enter a forum and it turns into a flame war. That’s how the internet works you know.
If I were you, I would stop worrying. Actually, if I were both of you I would apologize to the other and call it a day so you can get back to how things were in the old days, as you put it. Either way I don’t think you are going to get booted from the convention or get a bad time slot or something because of this. I’m a panelist at this year’s Otakon too and I have always known them to be professional and not petty. If they started screwing over every panelist they ever had a disagreement with, 1, the panelists would riot and 2, they probably wouldn’t have a panel track to begin with.
So seriously, both of you, just stop it, admit that you both need each other, and go have a drink together or something to call it even. You are professionals. You are both above all of this.
For the record, I wouldn’t be offended if you all performed in the nude! Yes, that’s right sans clothes entirely! But, that’s just me and my opinion.
To me, what society in general accepts as “ok attire” is completely hypocritical and judgemental. It’s ok for hot girls to walk around in a bra and a skimpy pair of panties but it’s not okay for a guy to walk around in boxers? Boxers generally cover up more than the bra and panties do! As I said before, I don’t care if you all perform in your birthday suits, but I would think that as long as all the private parts were covered, society wouldn’t really care what was worn. Course that’s, obviously, not the case.
(PS: Should Ota staff read this comment, I am talking directly about society in general–not Otakon policies or rules. Like Angelo (and the rest of DOXIII) I completely respect Ota rules and the rights they have to create and uphold said rules~)